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I never got any money from you

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UFO my just as well stand for under

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President Financial opportunity

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[Applause]

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be normal

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this is the saucer life a podcast in

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which we examine Concepts events for

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people orbiting the world of flying

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saucers few preconceptions snark when

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Justified no belief no debunking today

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we're going to be taking a look at the

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1965 UFO sightings near Exeter New

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Hampshire the sightings are interesting

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for a number of reasons not just because

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of the very plausible nature of the

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witness statements but also because of

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the way the Air Force and the Department

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of Defense handled their investigation

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of the case and their communication with

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the public something else interesting

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about it is that because of the work of

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John Fuller writing in magazines and

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eventually in a book called incident at

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Exeter about the case this is one of the

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better known UFO sightings of the area

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there's also as I've learned an

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interesting sort of

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condition where the memory of what was

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actually cited in the sky the

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illustrations of this doesn't match any

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of the statements and this has been sort

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of investigated by people and documented

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by people over the years so there's some

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interesting

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assumptions about what people saw that

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don't match what people actually saw so

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there are a few different things going

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on here but it's still a fairly compact

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case and we should be able to handle it

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with more with more speed than we were

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the various Shenanigans surrounding Gulf

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Breeze and honestly it's nice to have

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something as straightforward as this and

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especially since it's a a briefer sort

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of story it's good because I've got this

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awful cold and I'm not sure how long my

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voice is going to last so let's go ahead

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and get started

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so one thing that I I did do or sort of

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didn't do when preparing this episode I

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I pretty much avoided John Fuller's book

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incident at Exeter one reason for this

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is that most people who are interested

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in the topic or the case have read the

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book it's a pretty popular one it sort

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of shows up in multiple editions printed

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over and over again

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I've never actually read it before I

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started working on this episode mostly

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because it seemed very long for the

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nature of the case I was probably short

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changing it at the time though but

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really the biggest reason that I avoided

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using it in preparing this episode is

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that I think it's valuable to work

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through the story and all stories really

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but this story in particular by looking

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at the unvarnished first-hand accounts

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and primary sources I'm an historian

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it's it's an occupational hazard so

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let's start on September 3rd 1965 with

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what happened to a young man named

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Norman muscarello he was 18 at the time

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hiking home to Exeter New Hampshire

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along New Hampshire State Highway 150.

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he had graduated from high school

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earlier that year and was going to be

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heading off to the Navy soon he'd been

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visiting his girlfriend and was on his

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way home from there it's about 10 miles

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and hitchhiking usually worked out but

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uh tonight he wasn't having much luck

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and he was having to walk a lot of that

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10 miles this is the statement he gave

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to the Air Force about what he saw

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I was hitchhiking on Route 150 three

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miles Southwest of Exeter New Hampshire

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at 0-200 hours on the 3rd of September a

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group of five bright red lights appeared

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over a house about a hundred feet from

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where I was standing the lights were in

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a line at about a 60 degree angle they

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were so bright they lighted up the area

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the lights then moved out over a large

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field and acted at times like a Floating

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Leaf they would go down behind the trees

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or behind a house and then reappear they

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always moved in the same 60 degree angle

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only one light would be on at a time

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they were pulsating one two three four

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five five four three two one they were

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so bright I could not distinguish any

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form to the object I watched these

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lights for about 15 minutes and they

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finally disappeared behind some trees

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and seemed to go into a field at one

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time while I was watching them they

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seemed to come so close I jumped into a

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ditch to keep from being hit after the

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lights went into the field I caught a

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ride to the Exeter police station and

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reported what I had seen

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Norman wasn't the only person who saw

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something strange that night patrolman

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Eugene Bertrand also had some

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I Eugene F Bertrand Jr was cruising on

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the morning of the 3rd of September at a

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100 on Route 108 bypass near Exeter New

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Hampshire I noticed an automobile parked

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on the side of the road and stopped to

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investigate I found a woman in the car

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who stated she was too upset to drive

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she stated a light had been following

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her and had stopped over her car I

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stayed with her about 15 minutes but was

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unable to see anything I departed and

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reported back to the Exeter police

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station where I found Norman muscatello

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he related his story of seeing some

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bright red lights in a field after

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talking to him a while I decided to take

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him back to where he said he had seen

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the lights when we arrived I parked the

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patrol Cruiser and turned off the lights

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there was nothing unusual in the area Mr

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muscatello and I got out of the cruiser

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and started walking into the field with

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a flashlight when we had gone about 50

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feet a group of five bright red lights

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came from behind a group of trees near

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us they were extremely bright and

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flashed on one at a time the lights

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started to move around over the field at

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one time they came so close I fell to

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the ground and started to draw my gun

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the lights were so bright I was unable

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to make out any form there was no sound

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or vibration but the farm animals were

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upset in the area and making a lot of

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noise when the lights started coming

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near us again Mr muscatello and I ran

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for the car I radioed patrolman David

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Hunt who arrived in a few minutes he

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also observed the lights which were

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still over the field but not as close as

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before the lights moved out across the

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field at an estimated altitude of 100

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feet and finally disappeared in the

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distance at the same altitude the lights

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were always in line at about a 60 degree

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angle when the object moved the Lower

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so we've got to witness the Witness Goes

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to the authorities the authorities say

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this sounds interesting let's go back

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and take a look they go back out there

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and you've got a very similar subsequent

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sighting and they call in someone else

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I David R hunt at about 0.255 on the

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morning of the 3rd of September received

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a call from patrolman Bertrand to report

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to an area about three miles Southwest

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of Exeter New Hampshire upon arriving at

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the scene I observed a group of bright

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red lights flashing in sequence they

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appeared to be about one half mile over

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a field to the southeast after observing

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the lights for a short period of time

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they moved off in a southeasterly

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direction and disappeared in the

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distance the lights appeared to remain

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at the same altitude which I estimate to

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three different Witnesses three

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different statements uh four Witnesses

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if you count hearsay the woman who the

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trollman Bertrand talked about or talked

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to previously and the three statements

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we have 60 degree angle comes up

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um red lights come up 100 feet altitude

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comes up those are things are all

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consistent so this is clearly something

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that these people are seeing we also

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have a recording of patrolman Bertrand

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talking about his perspective of the

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sighting after hunt arrived

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bright red object come up over the tree

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and uh actually uh spotted towards it I

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got a hold of him and dragged him back

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into the cruiser at this point uh off

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the hunt showed up and I called in

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saying that I was going to be all the

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crew so he had started out and he showed

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up

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and I turned to look back at it and it

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turned and gone down toward the end of

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the field about 100 yards away and we

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all three of us have been watched it had

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no wings on it

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it had the bright lights around it red

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lights

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that did not give off a b like many

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lights give off it's moreover glow like

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a neon sign and there was no plane in

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the area that night we just watched it

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head towards the coast and uh

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appear Over the Horizon that made no

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noise now the hustled and the animals

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around me apparently could hear some

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kind of a noise because they were really

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the horses were kicking the sides of the

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bond some people were seeing it before

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them but they didn't say nothing about

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it they're afraid people laugh at them

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there really is some nice consistency to

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these reports and to these to these

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witness sightings so the two police

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officers hunt and uh Bertrand talk to

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their superiors and the police chief

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goes to peace Air Force Base in

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Portsmouth New Hampshire which it isn't

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that far away it's it's New Hampshire

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nothing is is that far away it's it's a

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small place the investigation at peace

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Air Force Base was led by Major David

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Griffin and Lieutenant Allen Brandt and

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there was a lot of a lot of interest in

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this story as we're going to see these

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were not the only UFO sightings that had

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taken place in this area during uh

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during this period of time and the Air

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Force men in New Hampshire seem like

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they might have been a little

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overwhelmed on October 15th Lieutenant

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Brandt contacts Wright-Patterson Air

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Force Base the home of Project Blue Book

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and explains that they need some help

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explaining to the public what might be

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there have been an unusually high number

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of reported sightings of unidentified

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flying objects in the peace Air Force

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base New Hampshire area which have been

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the subject of much discussion and

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numerous newspaper radio and television

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reports many of these sightings have

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been reported to this base and your

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records will show that we have performed

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thorough investigations of them other

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reports which we have learned of second

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hand have been made to local police

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departments and in a few cases to

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newspapers several members of this

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command have actually been called to

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view UFOs by sincere and sober citizens

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but as yet we have always been too late

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or unlucky the most interesting sighting

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in the nearby town of Exeter aroused

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special interest as two policemen saw

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the object at very close range it is the

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subject of an article in the current

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issue of the Saturday review of

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literature do you operate a speaker's

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Bureau or would you be able to suggest

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where I might obtain a knowledgeable Air

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Force spokesman who could explain the

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Air Force UFO program and what happens

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to reports sent to your organization

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[Music]

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the response from the Air Force back to

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the Air Force does not as a rule provide

279
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speakers to private groups on the

280
00:10:37,130 --> 00:10:35,160
subject of UFOs past experience has

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00:10:38,990 --> 00:10:37,140
indicated that talks on the subject only

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00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:39,000
serve to generate additional requests

283
00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:40,920
for speakers and creates additional

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so we don't like to explain to people

285
00:10:51,889 --> 00:10:49,440
what we're doing to investigate UFOs

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00:10:53,569 --> 00:10:51,899
because they might want us to talk more

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00:10:56,329 --> 00:10:53,579
about what we're doing to investigate

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UFOs and it will just remind people that

289
00:11:02,030 --> 00:10:59,300
UFOs are a thing and create additional

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00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:02,040
stories additional claims the Air Force

291
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:04,260
you can just tell it's just dripping

292
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,260
with this sense of why do we need to

293
00:11:12,530 --> 00:11:09,360
keep talking about UFOs this is so

294
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,540
frustrating we hate it and I don't know

295
00:11:16,190 --> 00:11:14,640
I kind of Wonder to what degree people

296
00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:16,200
in the Air Force were sent to work on

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Blue Book when they had screwed up

298
00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:19,320
somewhere else and so they're given this

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00:11:24,290 --> 00:11:22,380
very frustrating public-facing job just

300
00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:24,300
I don't know as a punishment I have

301
00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:26,040
nothing to base that on I'm just

302
00:11:29,690 --> 00:11:27,540
imagining at least some of the people

303
00:11:33,769 --> 00:11:29,700
who worked for Blue Book at some point

304
00:11:35,810 --> 00:11:33,779
were there not of their own free will or

305
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:35,820
interest so Brent did say that the

306
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:38,160
newspapers had gotten involved the the

307
00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:39,839
Saturday review of literature was

308
00:11:43,850 --> 00:11:41,880
involved and Other Stories despite the

309
00:11:46,130 --> 00:11:43,860
fact that the Air Force men had told the

310
00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:46,140
witnesses not to talk to the Press the

311
00:11:50,810 --> 00:11:48,420
story got out anyway into local papers

312
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,820
newswires Saturday review of literature

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00:11:54,889 --> 00:11:53,279
Etc with a few days of the original

314
00:11:58,250 --> 00:11:54,899
sighting it was all over the United

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00:12:00,829 --> 00:11:58,260
States and one example is a story from

316
00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:00,839
the it's from the Associated Press but

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the version I got it from the version I

318
00:12:08,690 --> 00:12:06,120
got was from the September 8th 1965

319
00:12:10,670 --> 00:12:08,700
edition of the San Francisco Examiner

320
00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:10,680
what's interesting about the story is

321
00:12:15,889 --> 00:12:13,620
that it talks about the the Exeter case

322
00:12:17,930 --> 00:12:15,899
that we've been discussing but it says

323
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there were numerous reports of UFO

324
00:12:23,090 --> 00:12:19,680
sightings in Southeastern New Hampshire

325
00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:23,100
over a period of six weeks all of them

326
00:12:27,170 --> 00:12:25,320
they said have five red lights blinking

327
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:27,180
in sequence and these have been seen

328
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:31,200
since July 29th and it's September when

329
00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:34,079
um when when our sighting occurs they

330
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:37,140
recap the muscarello sighting and say

331
00:12:41,329 --> 00:12:39,180
that quote at least one similar sighting

332
00:12:43,970 --> 00:12:41,339
was reported almost every night last

333
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:43,980
week according to sources at the air

334
00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:47,040
base so this is not just this one

335
00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:50,040
evening when Norman was hitchhiking this

336
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:53,220
is a much longer thing now in October

337
00:12:58,670 --> 00:12:56,399
Griffin would pass along his report of

338
00:13:01,550 --> 00:12:58,680
his investigation to Project Blue Book

339
00:13:06,410 --> 00:13:01,560
for further inquiry and in his report to

340
00:13:10,730 --> 00:13:08,990
at this time have been unable to arrive

341
00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:10,740
at a probable cause of this sighting

342
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:12,839
three observers seem to be stable

343
00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:14,760
reliable persons especially the two

344
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:16,860
patrolmen I viewed the area of the

345
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,300
siding and found nothing in that area

346
00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:20,639
that could be the probable cause peace

347
00:13:24,769 --> 00:13:22,980
Air Force Base had five B-47 aircraft

348
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,779
flying in the area during this period

349
00:13:31,009 --> 00:13:26,639
but do not believe they had any

350
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:34,610
so Griffin is not afraid to admit to the

351
00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:36,240
people at Blue Book that he does not

352
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:37,860
know what people might have seen that

353
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:40,320
nothing that he's looked into makes

354
00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:42,959
sense as a cause and there seems to be

355
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:45,180
at least at this point in the story a

356
00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:49,680
refreshing amount of honesty from these

357
00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:52,860
uh these these people at peace Air Force

358
00:13:58,129 --> 00:13:54,660
Base who are looking into this issue

359
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:58,139
there's no minimization of the case

360
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:00,839
there's no dismissal of these Witnesses

361
00:14:06,290 --> 00:14:03,420
there's no sort of mockery of these

362
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:06,300
Witnesses what we do have is a case

363
00:14:12,530 --> 00:14:10,320
where I think that because two of the

364
00:14:14,569 --> 00:14:12,540
Witnesses were members of law

365
00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:14,579
enforcement that there might have been a

366
00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:17,160
little more attention paid to this case

367
00:14:23,629 --> 00:14:19,800
or a little more credibility given to it

368
00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:23,639
now that would not be the case forever

369
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:25,260
so

370
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:29,760
Griffin sends this case to Blue Book at

371
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:31,440
Wright-Patterson for them to look into

372
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:34,260
after he had already investigated it

373
00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:37,980
there in New Hampshire before Blue Book

374
00:14:44,269 --> 00:14:40,980
could issue a report or finish their

375
00:14:46,030 --> 00:14:44,279
investigation the Pentagon not Blue Book

376
00:14:48,829 --> 00:14:46,040
just the Pentagon the defense department

377
00:14:54,170 --> 00:14:48,839
issued a statement to the local press

378
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:54,180
this occurred on October 27 1965 and

379
00:14:58,970 --> 00:14:56,040
John Fuller wrote about this in an

380
00:15:02,329 --> 00:14:58,980
article in August of 1966 for True

381
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:04,069
the Pentagon believes that after

382
00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:06,000
intensive investigation it has come up

383
00:15:09,650 --> 00:15:07,860
with a natural explanation of the UFO

384
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:09,660
sightings in Exeter New Hampshire on

385
00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:12,240
September 3rd a spokesman said the

386
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:14,820
several reports stemmed from multiple

387
00:15:18,889 --> 00:15:17,279
objects in the area by which they mean a

388
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:18,899
high altitude Strategic Air Command

389
00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:21,120
exercise out of Westover Massachusetts

390
00:15:25,730 --> 00:15:23,880
was going on at the time in the area

391
00:15:28,129 --> 00:15:25,740
a second important factor was what it

392
00:15:29,810 --> 00:15:28,139
called a weather inversion wherein a

393
00:15:32,509 --> 00:15:29,820
layer of cold air is trapped between

394
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:32,519
warm layers the Pentagon spokesman said

395
00:15:36,650 --> 00:15:34,620
this natural phenomenon causes stars and

396
00:15:38,449 --> 00:15:36,660
planets to dance and twinkle the

397
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:38,459
spokesman said we believe what the

398
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:41,100
people saw that night was stars and

399
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:45,540
planets in unusual formations

400
00:15:50,210 --> 00:15:47,760
this is almost a little bit of an Air

401
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:50,220
Force or military Greatest Hits

402
00:15:54,889 --> 00:15:52,260
explanation for things weather

403
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:54,899
inversions you just saw the stars there

404
00:15:59,449 --> 00:15:56,220
might have been aircraft in the area

405
00:16:02,990 --> 00:15:59,459
Without Really addressing the actual

406
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,000
things that people saw it's kind of

407
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:05,040
disappointing but not really surprising

408
00:16:08,449 --> 00:16:06,600
well maybe a little surprising after

409
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:08,459
sort of major Griffin's sort of

410
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:10,500
admission we don't know what this could

411
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:12,300
be and then the pentagon's saying after

412
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:15,839
intensive investigation when by whom

413
00:16:21,470 --> 00:16:18,720
because Blue Book still hasn't issued

414
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:21,480
its own explanation for this patrolman

415
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:24,060
Bertrand talking to John filler for that

416
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,660
August 1966 article in true magazine had

417
00:16:33,769 --> 00:16:30,720
his own take on what the Pentagon was

418
00:16:36,829 --> 00:16:35,449
if they want to turn out ridiculous

419
00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:36,839
statements like that that's their

420
00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:38,940
business I know what I saw they don't

421
00:16:42,829 --> 00:16:40,740
and of course I can't accept what they

422
00:16:44,689 --> 00:16:42,839
say there I know for sure it had nothing

423
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,699
to do with the weather I know for sure

424
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:46,560
this was a craft and it was not any

425
00:16:50,749 --> 00:16:48,839
plane in existence I know for sure it

426
00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:50,759
was not more than a hundred feet off the

427
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:52,380
ground I'm not saying it's something

428
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:54,300
from outer space I'm saying I don't know

429
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:55,980
what it was and from this newspaper

430
00:16:59,689 --> 00:16:57,480
story they've released I know damn well

431
00:17:01,069 --> 00:16:59,699
they don't either I know it didn't have

432
00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:01,079
any wings and I know it wasn't a

433
00:17:05,390 --> 00:17:03,000
helicopter or no balloon or anything of

434
00:17:07,309 --> 00:17:05,400
that sort it's absolutely stupid of them

435
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:07,319
to release something like that

436
00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:14,150
so patrolman Bertrand is not convinced

437
00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:15,900
and I think it's important to note here

438
00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:18,419
that he is not saying this is this is a

439
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,740
spaceship he's not saying these are

440
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:21,600
aliens he's saying he doesn't know which

441
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:23,640
is as you know here in the saucer life

442
00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:27,419
and attitude we very much enjoy when we

443
00:17:31,549 --> 00:17:29,160
come back from a brief break we are

444
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:31,559
going to see what blue book did have to

445
00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:33,780
say about this case and what the

446
00:17:38,029 --> 00:17:35,400
witnesses had to say back to Blue Book

447
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:38,039
and what Blue Book might have said back

448
00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:41,760
to the witnesses if they had chosen to

449
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,760
it gets a little interesting folks and

450
00:17:53,150 --> 00:17:47,039
we'll be right back

451
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:54,890
if you like the saucer life and want

452
00:17:58,850 --> 00:17:56,880
more you can support us in exchange for

453
00:18:00,409 --> 00:17:58,860
bonus content recently we did a watch

454
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,419
along of the first episode of project

455
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:02,820
UFO which is a lot of fun and guess what

456
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:05,460
the Air Force's explanation for the

457
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:06,720
sighting was

458
00:18:12,110 --> 00:18:08,880
it was a temperature inversion so yes

459
00:18:13,789 --> 00:18:12,120
neat little coincidence there there's

460
00:18:15,289 --> 00:18:13,799
also appearances from the saucer wife on

461
00:18:17,330 --> 00:18:15,299
some of the bonus episodes and all sorts

462
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:17,340
of other things and over the last 10

463
00:18:21,289 --> 00:18:19,320
months since we've started it up we've

464
00:18:22,850 --> 00:18:21,299
built a nice library of materials not

465
00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:22,860
just from the saucer life but also from

466
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:24,840
our show Great Lakes lore so there's a

467
00:18:28,810 --> 00:18:26,760
lot there for you to dive into you can

468
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:28,820
check it out at

469
00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:31,980
patreon.comedia or via the link in the

470
00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:34,140
show notes you can also check out past

471
00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:35,940
episodes of the show at saucer life or

472
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:38,220
in your favorite podcast app five years

473
00:18:42,169 --> 00:18:40,320
worth at this point and as always we're

474
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:42,179
on Twitter and Instagram at saucer life

475
00:18:46,010 --> 00:18:44,280
and you can email us at thesaucerlife

476
00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:46,020
gmail.com

477
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:48,539
you can contact us by post at chisomedia

478
00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:53,880
PO Box 68 Grand Blanc Michigan 48480 now

479
00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:56,340
some responses to our last episode which

480
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:58,260
was the second part of things about the

481
00:19:03,230 --> 00:19:01,679
Gulf Breeze six Matthew says as I listen

482
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:03,240
to this series I could not help but

483
00:19:06,850 --> 00:19:05,220
imagine a scenario in which the US Army

484
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:06,860
decides that these folks are not only

485
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:09,960
untrustworthy to put up mildly but also

486
00:19:13,789 --> 00:19:11,460
suffering from some sort of mental

487
00:19:15,289 --> 00:19:13,799
illness or delusions the military may

488
00:19:17,090 --> 00:19:15,299
have quietly referred them to mental

489
00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:17,100
health professionals and shown them the

490
00:19:20,750 --> 00:19:19,140
door under a general discharge a

491
00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:20,760
charitable Viewpoint that would have

492
00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:22,860
Kehoe frothing to be sure but more

493
00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:24,780
plausible to me than hoagland's science

494
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,660
well almost anything is more plausible

495
00:19:31,549 --> 00:19:29,760
than hoagland's science Matthew and yes

496
00:19:37,070 --> 00:19:31,559
it would not be

497
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:37,080
Army did use the general discharge

498
00:19:43,450 --> 00:19:41,760
process to try to get these people some

499
00:19:46,730 --> 00:19:43,460
help if they thought they needed it

500
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:46,740
through the through the the Veterans

501
00:19:51,169 --> 00:19:48,799
Affairs system or something like that

502
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:51,179
also listen to Red Pill junkie thought I

503
00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:53,640
was snarkier than usual but not snarkier

504
00:19:58,490 --> 00:19:56,340
than warranted well the presence of both

505
00:20:01,970 --> 00:19:58,500
Sean David Morton and Richard Hoagland

506
00:20:04,190 --> 00:20:01,980
tends to have that kind of that kind of

507
00:20:05,950 --> 00:20:04,200
effect on me as for right now let's get

508
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:05,960
back to the very

509
00:20:10,909 --> 00:20:09,000
unsnarky accounts of what happened in

510
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:10,919
Exeter New Hampshire and what Project

511
00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:13,630
Blue Book had to say about it

512
00:20:25,549 --> 00:20:21,590
in an undated letter sometime in

513
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:25,559
November of 1965 the head of Project

514
00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:30,179
Blue Book major Hector Nia Jr wrote to

515
00:20:36,350 --> 00:20:32,940
Bertrand and hunt at the Exeter Police

516
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:36,360
Department in Exeter New Hampshire now

517
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:38,160
in what you're going to hear from this

518
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:41,280
letter originally the name of Norman

519
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:44,520
muscarello was redacted but we know who

520
00:20:53,330 --> 00:20:47,940
it is so this is what Hector Quintanilla

521
00:20:58,250 --> 00:20:55,850
gentlemen the sighting of various

522
00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:58,260
unidentified objects by you and Mr

523
00:21:02,210 --> 00:21:00,539
muscarella was investigated by officials

524
00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:02,220
from peace Air Force base New Hampshire

525
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,900
and the report has been forwarded to our

526
00:21:07,490 --> 00:21:05,280
office at Wright-Patterson Air Force

527
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,500
Base the sighting at Exeter New

528
00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:09,120
Hampshire on the night of 2nd September

529
00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:10,980
has been given considerable publicity

530
00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:12,900
through various news releases and in

531
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,520
magazine articles similar to that from

532
00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:17,280
the Saturday review of 2nd October 1965.

533
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:19,260
a portion of this article is attached

534
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:21,120
for your information this information

535
00:21:23,930 --> 00:21:22,440
was released by the national

536
00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:23,940
investigations committee on aerial

537
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:25,500
phenomena on a private organization

538
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,880
which has no connection with the

539
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,799
government as a result of these articles

540
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,960
the Air Force has received inquiry as to

541
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,880
the cause of this report our

542
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,799
investigation and evaluation of the

543
00:21:38,029 --> 00:21:36,240
sighting indicates a possible

544
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,039
association with an eighth Air Force

545
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,559
operation big blast in addition to

546
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,240
aircraft from this operation there were

547
00:21:46,909 --> 00:21:44,640
five B-47 type aircraft flying in the

548
00:21:48,649 --> 00:21:46,919
area during this period before a final

549
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:48,659
evaluation of your sighting can be made

550
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:50,820
it is essential for us to know if either

551
00:21:54,289 --> 00:21:52,559
of you witnessed any aircraft in the

552
00:21:56,570 --> 00:21:54,299
area during this time time period either

553
00:21:58,610 --> 00:21:56,580
independently or in connection with the

554
00:22:00,830 --> 00:21:58,620
objects observed since there were many

555
00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:00,840
aircrafts in the area at that time and

556
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:02,220
there were no reports of unidentified

557
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:04,140
objects from Personnel engaged in this

558
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,600
air operation we might then assume that

559
00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:08,159
the objects observed between midnight

560
00:22:13,789 --> 00:22:10,740
and 2 am might be associated with this

561
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,799
military air operation if however these

562
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:15,360
aircraft were noted by either of you

563
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:17,700
then this would tend to eliminate the

564
00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:19,740
air operation as a plausible explanation

565
00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:26,930
so basically something else might have

566
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:28,679
been going on but we don't know if

567
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:29,940
that's the thing you were seeing until

568
00:22:35,149 --> 00:22:31,860
you tell us if there were other

569
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:35,159
airplanes going on at the same time as

570
00:22:39,049 --> 00:22:38,100
what you saw with the red lights

571
00:22:42,409 --> 00:22:39,059
Etc

572
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:42,419
so this is a little different actually

573
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:44,880
it's a lot different from the earlier

574
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:48,240
Pentagon explanation that it was stars

575
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:50,400
planets temperature inversion things

576
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:53,580
like that but it still moves things out

577
00:22:58,909 --> 00:22:56,520
of the realm of strange sightings and

578
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,919
into you mistook conventional aircraft

579
00:23:04,430 --> 00:23:00,720
for

580
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:04,440
something else on December 2nd 1965 hunt

581
00:23:13,190 --> 00:23:11,570
dear sir we were very glad to get your

582
00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:13,200
letter during the third week in November

583
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:14,700
because as you might imagine we have

584
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:15,840
been the subject of considerable

585
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:17,940
ridicule since the Pentagon released its

586
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:20,100
final evaluation of our sighting in

587
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,960
other words both patrolman hunt and

588
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:23,760
myself saw this object at close range

589
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:26,159
checked it out with each other confirmed

590
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,900
and reconfirmed the fact this was not

591
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,000
any kind of conventional aircraft that

592
00:23:33,289 --> 00:23:31,679
it was at an altitude of not more than a

593
00:23:34,909 --> 00:23:33,299
couple hundred feet and went to

594
00:23:37,250 --> 00:23:34,919
considerable trouble to confirm that the

595
00:23:39,169 --> 00:23:37,260
weather was clear there was no wind no

596
00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:39,179
chance of weather inversion and that

597
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:40,980
what we were seeing was no illusion or

598
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:43,679
military or civilian craft we entered

599
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:45,600
this in a complete official police

600
00:23:49,789 --> 00:23:47,580
report as a supplement to the blotter of

601
00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:49,799
the morning of September 3rd since our

602
00:23:54,169 --> 00:23:52,500
job depends on accuracy and an ability

603
00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:54,179
to tell the difference between fact and

604
00:23:57,770 --> 00:23:56,220
fiction we were naturally disturbed by

605
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,780
the Pentagon report which attributed

606
00:24:01,490 --> 00:23:59,520
deciding to multiple high-altitude

607
00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:01,500
objects in the area and weather

608
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:03,960
inversion what is a little difficult to

609
00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:05,580
understand is the fact that your letter

610
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:08,220
arrived considerably after the Pentagon

611
00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:10,320
release since your letter says you are

612
00:24:13,970 --> 00:24:11,820
still in the process of making a final

613
00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:13,980
evaluation it seems that there is an

614
00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:16,260
inconsistency here ordinarily this

615
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:18,120
wouldn't be too important except for the

616
00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:19,919
fact that in a situation like this we

617
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,900
are naturally very reluctant to be

618
00:24:28,430 --> 00:24:23,760
considered irresponsible in our official

619
00:24:35,270 --> 00:24:31,909
this is a really good point why is Blue

620
00:24:38,029 --> 00:24:35,280
Book asking these questions when the

621
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,039
Pentagon has already issued a different

622
00:24:43,610 --> 00:24:40,559
explanation and says that intensive

623
00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:43,620
investigation has taken place does the

624
00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:45,000
right hand not know what the left hand

625
00:24:48,830 --> 00:24:46,620
is doing or are they talking to each

626
00:24:52,430 --> 00:24:48,840
other and trying to muddy the waters the

627
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,049
since one of us

628
00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:55,919
patrolman Bertrand was in the air force

629
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:57,720
for four years engaged in refueling

630
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:59,280
operations with all kinds of military

631
00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:01,559
aircraft it was impossible to mistake

632
00:25:06,409 --> 00:25:03,240
what we saw for any type of military

633
00:25:08,090 --> 00:25:06,419
operation regardless of altitude it was

634
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:08,100
also definitely not a helicopter or

635
00:25:10,970 --> 00:25:09,120
balloon

636
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:10,980
immediately after the object disappeared

637
00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:13,440
we did see what probably was a B-47 at

638
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:15,780
high altitude but it bore no relation at

639
00:25:19,789 --> 00:25:18,240
all to the object we saw another fact is

640
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:19,799
that the time of our observation was

641
00:25:23,330 --> 00:25:21,720
nearly an hour after 2 A.M which would

642
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,340
eliminate the 8th Air Force operation

643
00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:25,440
big blast since as you say this took

644
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:27,720
place between midnight and 2 A.M Mr

645
00:25:31,370 --> 00:25:29,400
muscatello who first reported this

646
00:25:33,289 --> 00:25:31,380
object before we went to the site saw it

647
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,299
somewhere in the vicinity of 2 am but

648
00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:35,039
nearly an hour had passed before he got

649
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:37,020
to the police station and we went out to

650
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:38,400
location with him

651
00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:40,440
we would both appreciate it very much if

652
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:41,940
you would help us eliminate the possible

653
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:43,440
conclusion that some people have made

654
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:45,720
and that we might have a made up the

655
00:25:50,269 --> 00:25:48,480
story or B were incompetent observers

656
00:25:52,130 --> 00:25:50,279
anything you could do along this line

657
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:52,140
would be very much appreciated and I'm

658
00:25:54,169 --> 00:25:53,460
sure you understand the position we're

659
00:25:56,029 --> 00:25:54,179
in

660
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:56,039
we appreciate the problems the Air Force

661
00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:57,600
must have with a lot of irresponsible

662
00:26:02,330 --> 00:25:59,880
reports on the subject and don't want to

663
00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:02,340
cause you any unnecessary trouble on the

664
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:03,900
other hand we think you probably

665
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:11,210
major we didn't see anything remotely

666
00:26:15,890 --> 00:26:13,919
like your operation big blast and even

667
00:26:19,070 --> 00:26:15,900
if we had it was at the wrong time

668
00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:19,080
unless you're wrong about the time we

669
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:21,240
would really appreciate it if you would

670
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,360
issue something that stops making us

671
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:26,159
look stupid in front of the community

672
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:29,220
members we have sworn to Serve and

673
00:26:32,029 --> 00:26:30,240
Protect

674
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:32,039
that's a little more blunt than what

675
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:33,480
they actually wrote but the meaning is

676
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:36,000
there it's it's an awkward letter

677
00:26:42,970 --> 00:26:38,880
they're they're being forceful but

678
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:42,980
polite at the same time so how does

679
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:46,260
Quintanilla and Project Blue Book

680
00:26:51,169 --> 00:26:47,820
respond

681
00:26:53,330 --> 00:26:51,179
well they don't on December 23rd the two

682
00:26:56,029 --> 00:26:53,340
patrolmen write a second letter to Major

683
00:26:58,430 --> 00:26:56,039
Quintanilla reiterating why operation

684
00:27:00,649 --> 00:26:58,440
big blast as described by Quintanilla

685
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:00,659
doesn't fit with what they actually saw

686
00:27:06,830 --> 00:27:04,140
and reiterating also their concerns

687
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:06,840
about their reputation in light of the

688
00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:10,559
Air Force's explanations and or refusal

689
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:13,380
to issue a further explanation to

690
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:15,960
counter the supposedly apparently

691
00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:24,049
what bothers us most is that many people

692
00:27:27,649 --> 00:27:25,980
are thinking that we were either lying

693
00:27:29,090 --> 00:27:27,659
or not intelligent enough to tell the

694
00:27:31,310 --> 00:27:29,100
difference between what we saw and

695
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:31,320
something ordinary three other people

696
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:33,720
saw the same thing on September 3rd and

697
00:27:37,370 --> 00:27:35,220
two of them appeared to be in shock from

698
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:37,380
it this was absolutely not a case of

699
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:39,000
mistaken identity

700
00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:40,740
we both feel it's very important for our

701
00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:42,600
jobs and our reputations to get some

702
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:44,220
kind of letter from you to say that the

703
00:27:48,830 --> 00:27:46,320
story which the Pentagon put out was not

704
00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:48,840
true it could not possibly be because we

705
00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:50,820
were the people who saw this not the

706
00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:53,340
Pentagon can you please let us hear from

707
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:55,030
you as soon as possible

708
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:58,200
[Music]

709
00:28:02,990 --> 00:28:00,840
so the patrolmen are getting a little

710
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,000
concerned maybe a little desperate to

711
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:05,520
have their reputations cleared up one

712
00:28:10,010 --> 00:28:07,620
possible reason for the delay in getting

713
00:28:11,870 --> 00:28:10,020
a response is that the Air Force simply

714
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:11,880
hadn't finished their investigation

715
00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:14,960
based on the new information or the

716
00:28:19,789 --> 00:28:17,640
re-explained information from Bertrand

717
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,799
and hunt a letter from Blue Book

718
00:28:24,169 --> 00:28:21,600
officials to

719
00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:24,179
um to to the the sort of higher-ups in

720
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:27,000
the Air Force in January of 1966 said

721
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:28,320
that they were delaying their reply

722
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:30,900
about the Exeter citing because of the

723
00:28:36,890 --> 00:28:34,080
information about when the patrolman saw

724
00:28:37,930 --> 00:28:36,900
what they saw that it was after the big

725
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:37,940
blast

726
00:28:43,549 --> 00:28:41,279
exercises and so that couldn't be the

727
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:43,559
explanation the wheels continue turning

728
00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:46,799
and finally in November of 1966 November

729
00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:49,020
9th 1966 Lieutenant Colonel John

730
00:28:59,570 --> 00:28:57,649
gentlemen

731
00:29:01,130 --> 00:28:59,580
based on the additional information you

732
00:29:02,690 --> 00:29:01,140
submitted to our UFO investigation

733
00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:02,700
office at Wright-Patterson Air Force

734
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:05,100
Base Ohio we have been unable to

735
00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:06,960
identify the object you observed on

736
00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:10,200
September 3rd 1965. in 19 years of

737
00:29:14,029 --> 00:29:12,120
investigating over 10 000 reports of

738
00:29:16,010 --> 00:29:14,039
unidentified flying objects the evidence

739
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:16,020
has proved almost conclusively that

740
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:17,760
reported aerial phenomenon have been

741
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,220
objects either created and sent Aloft by

742
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:22,799
man generated by atmospheric conditions

743
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,080
or caused by celestial bodies or the

744
00:29:30,049 --> 00:29:27,600
residue of meteoric activity

745
00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:30,059
thank you for reporting your observation

746
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:31,740
of the Air Force and for your subsequent

747
00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:34,020
cooperation regarding the report I

748
00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:35,880
regret any inconvenience you may have

749
00:29:45,889 --> 00:29:42,950
so the Air Force admits that it doesn't

750
00:29:48,049 --> 00:29:45,899
know what these men saw and the other

751
00:29:49,730 --> 00:29:48,059
Witnesses saw they don't know their

752
00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:49,740
initial supposition that it was

753
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,020
Operation big blast doesn't work out

754
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:54,480
based on the timeline and they just

755
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:57,360
can't identify it it is literally an

756
00:30:03,169 --> 00:30:00,240
unidentified flying object

757
00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:03,179
however they are pretty quick to couch

758
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:05,940
that in some sort of Weasley terms

759
00:30:10,970 --> 00:30:08,159
aren't they it's like in in you know 10

760
00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:10,980
000 cases vast majority are natural

761
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:13,740
phenomenon or something man-made

762
00:30:17,570 --> 00:30:15,899
yeah that's that's great and that's

763
00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:17,580
absolutely true

764
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,080
but

765
00:30:23,330 --> 00:30:21,120
this isn't that or at least you can't

766
00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:23,340
find any evidence that it's that now I

767
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:25,320
don't expect the Air Force to say well

768
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:27,059
clearly this is a

769
00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:29,279
alien spacecraft or something like that

770
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:32,700
but it's still nice to get that kind of

771
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:35,520
yeah we don't know what it is either

772
00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:38,159
John Fuller's conclusions to all this in

773
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:41,340
his 1966 article in true magazine sums

774
00:30:46,130 --> 00:30:42,960
up some of the pertinent issues with

775
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:48,049
the most logical but still unprovable

776
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,860
explanation is that the unidentified

777
00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:51,600
flying objects are interplanetary

778
00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:53,480
spaceships under intelligent control

779
00:30:57,529 --> 00:30:55,620
nycap and others have been supporting

780
00:30:59,510 --> 00:30:57,539
this hypothesis for years it's

781
00:31:01,789 --> 00:30:59,520
credibility however has suffered by the

782
00:31:03,649 --> 00:31:01,799
support of the crackpot Fringe In Spite

783
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:03,659
of this the hypothesis remains stronger

784
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,820
than any other Theory advanced

785
00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:07,440
the biggest remaining question is the

786
00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:08,940
apparent attitude of government and

787
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,860
scientific authorities who have shown no

788
00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:12,480
indication of setting up a full-scale

789
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:14,940
project either to prove or disprove the

790
00:31:19,070 --> 00:31:17,279
existence of UFOs or if they have the

791
00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:19,080
ostensible paternalistic protection of

792
00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:20,460
the public is not consistent with

793
00:31:24,049 --> 00:31:22,860
Democratic principles the reaction of

794
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:24,059
those who have experienced close

795
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:25,980
encounters with UFOs in the extra area

796
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:28,380
has been one of shock followed by

797
00:31:33,289 --> 00:31:30,539
intense curiosity rather than sustained

798
00:31:35,049 --> 00:31:33,299
Panic an unprepared public is far more

799
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,059
likely to panic than an informed one

800
00:31:39,169 --> 00:31:37,679
truth isn't likely to remain hidden

801
00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:39,179
forever in the light of recent

802
00:31:42,289 --> 00:31:40,860
developments the situation has reached a

803
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,299
point where it appears to be the duty

804
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,159
and responsibility of the government

805
00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:46,320
either to reveal what it knows or to

806
00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:48,299
order a scientific investigation on a

807
00:31:54,529 --> 00:31:50,220
major scale and Report the findings

808
00:31:59,630 --> 00:31:57,470
so some wider context this article this

809
00:32:04,070 --> 00:31:59,640
this conclusion from Fuller this comes

810
00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:04,080
out in the August 1966 issue of uh true

811
00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:05,220
magazine

812
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,039
by that time we not only have had the

813
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,320
Air Force admit it doesn't know what

814
00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:12,480
happened in Exeter they don't know what

815
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:14,039
people saw

816
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,240
this is also after the March 1966 swamp

817
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:20,640
gas sightings in Michigan so-called

818
00:32:25,310 --> 00:32:23,340
swamp gas sightings so the pressure is

819
00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:25,320
building as you can see from from

820
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:28,200
Fuller's response to this pressure is

821
00:32:32,690 --> 00:32:30,960
building four investigations public

822
00:32:36,769 --> 00:32:32,700
investigations not Air Force

823
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,779
investigations into what the UFO subject

824
00:32:42,289 --> 00:32:39,120
is when Congress begins looking at the

825
00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:42,299
UFO question in the 1960s investigator

826
00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:44,820
Ray Fowler Raymond Fowler is going to

827
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:47,640
enter this case this Exeter case into

828
00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:49,080
the Congressional Record he's going to

829
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:50,940
get that in there and in the testimony

830
00:32:55,850 --> 00:32:53,460
when they're questioning in Congress

831
00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:55,860
questioning Dr J Alan heineck of Project

832
00:33:00,769 --> 00:32:58,620
Blue Book they bring up the Exeter case

833
00:33:02,930 --> 00:33:00,779
as an example of one of that five

834
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:02,940
percent of Blue Book cases that is

835
00:33:07,789 --> 00:33:05,600
unexplained heineck says he did not

836
00:33:09,889 --> 00:33:07,799
investigate it personally he did not go

837
00:33:13,009 --> 00:33:09,899
there to work on that case his knowledge

838
00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:13,019
comes from where it comes from John

839
00:33:17,630 --> 00:33:15,720
Fuller's article in true magazine and

840
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:17,640
Fuller's other writings on the subject

841
00:33:22,669 --> 00:33:21,120
hi Nick the Blue Book advisor is relying

842
00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:22,679
on what journalists are saying about the

843
00:33:26,570 --> 00:33:24,179
UFOs in addition to his own

844
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:26,580
investigations we're getting to the

845
00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:29,460
point where things might start breaking

846
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:31,080
open a little bit

847
00:33:35,149 --> 00:33:33,000
what happens with these investigations

848
00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:35,159
well at some point in the future we're

849
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,620
probably going to have an episode about

850
00:33:42,350 --> 00:33:39,840
those investigations about the Condon

851
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,360
committee and we'll see what happens

852
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:44,880
then so one last thing I mentioned that

853
00:33:49,789 --> 00:33:48,000
there's some interesting things that

854
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:49,799
happen in the future from this case

855
00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:53,220
about depictions of what was seen in

856
00:33:58,370 --> 00:33:55,380
Exeter New Hampshire this came to my

857
00:34:00,169 --> 00:33:58,380
attention from Martin kottmeyer who

858
00:34:01,850 --> 00:34:00,179
responded to a social media post that we

859
00:34:03,289 --> 00:34:01,860
were doing this episode with you know

860
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:03,299
it's the case nobody gets right the

861
00:34:07,009 --> 00:34:05,039
illustrations are never right and he

862
00:34:08,690 --> 00:34:07,019
sent me he sent me an article with some

863
00:34:09,950 --> 00:34:08,700
information about this and it's

864
00:34:12,589 --> 00:34:09,960
fascinating because you remember the

865
00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:12,599
description of the craft from the

866
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,220
eyewitness reports

867
00:34:18,649 --> 00:34:16,800
five lights blinking on and off

868
00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:18,659
sequentially

869
00:34:24,349 --> 00:34:21,720
too dark or I mean not too dark too

870
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,359
bright the lights are too bright to see

871
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:26,879
any distinct shape

872
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:29,520
60 degree angles the way it's moving all

873
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,399
of that so here's some examples of

874
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:34,560
different ways the

875
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,159
craft has been depicted over time

876
00:34:43,490 --> 00:34:40,320
um UFOs the greatest mystery by Hillary

877
00:34:45,950 --> 00:34:43,500
Evans that came out in 1979 apparently

878
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:45,960
had an illustration of this craft that

879
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:50,040
said it was bowl shaped it was had one

880
00:34:56,810 --> 00:34:53,520
red light on top five Windows a red

881
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:56,820
circle along the rim and a triangular

882
00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:00,320
fin which is nothing like was

883
00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:03,300
illustrated by the words of the

884
00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:06,180
eyewitnesses in other cases descriptions

885
00:35:10,609 --> 00:35:08,820
of The Craft cited by Norman muscarello

886
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,619
and the others are Illustrated as

887
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:12,480
matching the description that Fuller

888
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,440
gives

889
00:35:18,050 --> 00:35:15,839
of the craft in his book interrupted

890
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:18,060
Journey about the Betty and Barney Hill

891
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:19,920
incident

892
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,900
um I guess

893
00:35:26,329 --> 00:35:23,280
because they were both in New Hampshire

894
00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:26,339
or something so that is uh that is also

895
00:35:30,410 --> 00:35:28,200
very very interesting

896
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:30,420
um in general what we seem to have is

897
00:35:37,849 --> 00:35:33,839
the imposition of popular Flying Saucer

898
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:37,859
imagery onto the the story of what

899
00:35:43,609 --> 00:35:40,740
actually happened in September of 1965.

900
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:43,619
almost as if sequentially blinking red

901
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:45,180
lights that the Air Force couldn't

902
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,720
identify aren't interesting enough so we

903
00:35:52,730 --> 00:35:50,400
have to illustrate this as a flying

904
00:35:55,250 --> 00:35:52,740
saucer or maybe it's just a more

905
00:35:57,470 --> 00:35:55,260
eye-catching eye-catching imagery but

906
00:36:00,290 --> 00:35:57,480
it's interesting to note that you know

907
00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:00,300
the the actual thing that people saw

908
00:36:04,490 --> 00:36:02,220
isn't usually the thing that's depicted

909
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:04,500
in illustrations accompanying the story

910
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:08,160
finally I must mention that in 2011 Joe

911
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,920
nickel and James McGaha a retired Air

912
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:13,200
Force Major wrote an article in

913
00:36:18,970 --> 00:36:15,720
skeptical Enquirer magazine explaining

914
00:36:22,730 --> 00:36:18,980
what might have been seen in Exeter

915
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:22,740
McGaha retired Air Force Major

916
00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:24,180
um had been a pilot and he had been

917
00:36:30,370 --> 00:36:28,260
refueled by KC 97 tanker aircraft which

918
00:36:35,210 --> 00:36:30,380
were stationed at peace Air Force Base

919
00:36:37,970 --> 00:36:35,220
in 1965. he says that the flashing red

920
00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:37,980
light pattern reported by Witnesses

921
00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:41,640
um was similar to the pattern that is on

922
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:45,900
those tankers the refueling boom hung

923
00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:48,060
down at a 60 degree angle and would

924
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:50,220
flutter when not being controlled by the

925
00:36:55,010 --> 00:36:53,040
boom operator so the object floating

926
00:36:55,849 --> 00:36:55,020
like a leaf it could be that on the

927
00:36:57,950 --> 00:36:55,859
other hand

928
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:57,960
I don't know Bertrand said he was

929
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:00,240
familiar with refueling operations from

930
00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:02,880
his time in the Air Force so I don't

931
00:37:08,470 --> 00:37:05,820
know if that is a reasonable explanation

932
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,480
and if it was a reasonable explanation

933
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:11,280
why didn't the Air Force put forward

934
00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:15,119
that explanation in 1965 because this

935
00:37:19,730 --> 00:37:17,820
was an Air Force thing and it was right

936
00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:19,740
at that air base

937
00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:22,260
maybe there weren't any of those

938
00:37:26,569 --> 00:37:24,900
operations going on at the time that

939
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:26,579
would have matched I don't know

940
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,240
just seems like maybe kind of a uh kind

941
00:37:35,569 --> 00:37:32,640
of a weak explanation and maybe that's

942
00:37:38,030 --> 00:37:35,579
because I think this is a fascinating

943
00:37:40,609 --> 00:37:38,040
example of one of that percentage of

944
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:40,619
Blue Book cases that is unexplained that

945
00:37:46,849 --> 00:37:43,980
resists easy categorization

946
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:46,859
that had strong Witnesses who told

947
00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:48,780
consistent stories

948
00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:51,900
maybe that is why I'm resistant to easy

949
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:54,300
explanations like oh it's the very

950
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,460
planes at the Air Force Base that

951
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,320
investigated the sightings initially and

952
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:00,480
they just what didn't notice

953
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:04,320
in any case a fun little case that got

954
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:06,240
an enormous amount of press was part of

955
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:08,460
that massive wave of sightings in the

956
00:38:14,569 --> 00:38:11,040
mid-1960s that stretched across the

957
00:38:16,849 --> 00:38:14,579
country and perhaps most significant for

958
00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:16,859
along with the swamp gas cases in

959
00:38:24,109 --> 00:38:20,520
Michigan in March of 66 in bringing

960
00:38:26,990 --> 00:38:24,119
public demand for better answers to the

961
00:38:28,849 --> 00:38:27,000
four and in a way forcing the

962
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:28,859
government's hand to launch those

963
00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:30,900
investigations which as we'll see in the

964
00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:34,320
future have a lasting effect on UFO

965
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:36,420
culture in the United States

966
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,490
thank you for listening remember to send

967
00:38:46,910 --> 00:38:45,119
in your questions and comments via the

968
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,920
usual social media or email channels and

969
00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:48,960
we'll be addressing those next time our

970
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:50,940
associate producer is Simpson J Hanover

971
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:52,740
III and the saucer life is a production

972
00:38:58,430 --> 00:38:55,920
of chisomedia LLC she's a media our

973
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:58,440
heart is with the people until next time

974
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:00,240
keep watching the skies because the